Ashley Theophane’s star is currently in the ascendancy, which begs the question why do so few people know about this modest and hardworking boxer?
One reason may be that he bravely chose to pursue his own route in the sport eschewing the usual road lined with managers and promoters, and another might be that whilst most fighters build up a healthy and some might say over impressive record on British shores, Ashley has done it the hard way, travelling widely, fighting in Europe and the States where he is being rightfully seen as tricky customer by Stateside fighters.
Theophane has won twenty seven fights, drawn one and has had only four defeats which were all by decision, and some were particularly questionable. Ashley’s two most notable wins have been against DeMarcus ‘Chop Chop’ Corley, who has been in with the likes of Floyd Mayweather Jr., and then his last fight against Delvin Rodriguez. This latter fight was meant to be a warm up fight for Rodriguez before he boxed in a world title fight eliminator in October. Ashley’s next opponent was slated to be Zab Judah, but as with two previous potential fights with Theophane that Judah had agreed to, he has again pulled out of the fight. Nevertheless, the fact that Ashley is on Judah’s radar suggests the calibre of opponent now likely to be put in front of the unassuming Londoner as he aims to make his mark the hard way.
Boxing-kit.com spoke to Ashley the week after his successful dismantling of World Number 3 Delvin Rodriguez. At present he is in the Catskills training with Dmitri Salita, something he has been doing for four years and their friendship has really developed. Theophane likes the Jewish fighter a lot for his unassuming modesty, which is something they have in common since Ashley comes across as a pleasant young man, lacking in bitterness despite the fact that he has been virtually ignored by British writers and the public on this side of the Atlantic. He is also tremendously honest and forthcoming with his views and as you might expect from a boxer, he pulls no punches.
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Theophane was born and brought up in London by a half Jamaican half Irish mother and a St Lucian father. He explained;
“My grandparents came over when my Dad was about 8 years old and my Mother was born in Paddington, and they met in London. My Mum is really proud of me, and I think my Dad is too because he walks round everywhere in one of my t-shirts! I’m looking forward to getting back to London to see everyone.”
His Dad was a keen fight fan and engendered in Ashley an early love for the sport, especially through their joint admiration of the early explosive career of Mike Tyson, along with the home skills of Nigel Benn, Lloyd Honeyghan and Kirkland Laing.
“It was these three British boxers that went and fought in America, and I have a lot of respect for British fighters who went over to America. I always wanted to do that too. When I was 15 years old, a trainer from the Gleason’s gym came over to All Stars and was there for three months and he told me, I should go visit the Gleason’s gym, and I didn’t really know what it was at the time, but he told me the history of it, and he told me I could be a world champion because I could box and fight. Years went by and I knew I had to go over to America because this was what I always wanted to do. So I went in 2005 when I was 9-2. Walking through the Gleason’s gym door for the first time was daunting, but now they see me as one of their own when I walk through the doors; they always say “Welcome Home”. They’ve taken me in as one of them. When I first went there I was one of the British boys, who the Americans line up to try and beat up. It was crazy because every time I went there, there was another dude ready to try and beat me up! Bit by bit, when they saw I could fight and I had skills and that I was willing to go at it, I got their respect. It’s now like my home part two, my home away from home”.
However in between the Gleason’s trainer coming to the UK, and Ashley’s arrival at the famous gym, there was the far from small matter of being falsely accused of a crime and stuck in prison.
“What happened there was that I was alleged to have done an armed robbery, to have taken a person’s Rolex and their diamonds. The police surrounded my apartment, it was like a movie, and it was crazy. There were police in the garden, round the back, down the street, the whole street was locked off. I was nineteen then, and I got arrested with my cousin so we had to spend the weekend in Paddington station then we went to court and then they shifted us off to Feltham. My cousin was only in for two months, but because I was the dude who was supposed to have had the gun, they kept me in jail because I was supposed to be the dangerous one. I had to stay there until my trial but then I got shipped off to HMP Lewes because there was a riot on my wing because my wing was full of the murderers and armed robbers, the gun people. The tension in that wing was kind of crazy, so I did three months in Lewes and then at the trial I got found not guilty because no guns were ever found, no jewellery was ever found. I shouldn’t even have been put in jail in the first place because there was no evidence against me; it was just one or two people’s words against me and my cousin’s saying that we’d done this crime, and so they put me in jail for six months. Some police who had altercations with me in the past were saying that I was dangerous, but I’ve got no convictions. So I got found ‘not guilty’ and whilst I was in jail I wrote to my college and they sent me my BTEC Media coursework so I finished my first year of college in jail. I got out of jail in time for Christmas and then finished my second year in college. They wanted me to go to University but I wanted to be a boxer, so saying that, my one regret is that I could have gone to University”.
So having put his spell in prison behind him, and having gained the respect of his Stateside audience in the Gleason’s gym, Theophane then hoped to move onto showing the rest of the world what he was capable of. Yet the problem of anonymity, a result of the fact that Theophane was pursuing his career pretty much singlehandedly, plagued him still.
“I am one of those kinds of boxers who, when I turned pro, no promoter would give me a fight because I didn’t have a stellar amateur career so I was just like another boxer who wanted to turn pro. It took me eight months to make my debut. People like me are never supposed to do anything. We are meant to be like the Area Champions, and the big promoters be it Warren, Hennessey, or Maloney, they are not interested in us guys. I had 21 fights on the club shows, then came out to America and went over to Germany, I have lost here and there but the perseverance thing helps open up doors and it takes just one big win to throw you up there. I know there are guys in the top ten who are very beatable but because a lot of them get protected they are safe, but then someone like me will get a bit of luck and get a fight against one of these guys who are very beatable. I took the Delvin (Rodriguez) fight on one month’s notice because I knew that he was beatable, having seen him fight and having sparred with him. I had seen that he can’t take pressure so I knew that if I pressured him he would fade. I was so glad that my team’s tactics worked in the end. It was a ten round fight, but had it been twelve, I am very sure I would have stopped him. I don’t know if you saw the fight but some of the reports said that Delvin was robbed. I don’t know if he was robbed, it was close but it’s obvious the tight rounds were given to me which I am very glad of. So rounds that would normally be ticked to the American were given to me. Before the fight a lot of people were saying the Rodriguez fight was a crossroads for me. In the press conference Delvin talked for about twenty minutes about his whole life, his boxing career, about being robbed three times. I’ve lost fights. The two fights that I lost in Britain, I don’t think that I lost. People booed the decision, but I am not holding onto it. I thought I beat the Garcia kid, but it happened. I am going to keep moving on, train hard. If I had lost the fight to Delvin, it would have bothered me, but he is number three in the world and was expected to beat me, so there would have been no shame in me losing to him. Glen Johnson has lost around thirteen times. Lovemore N’Dou has lost about twelve times, but they came back, and I would have too, so if I hadn’t have won it I would have bounced back, but I got the decision and with it being a month before my birthday it was the biggest present I could have got in my career, so I am proud of that.
Delvin didn’t have to take the fight” continues Ashley, “but he had obviously seen me box and thought he could just turn up and he was going to beat me. I could now fight for the IBO title, and as far as the IBF is concerned I am going to be ranked, but I have to wait for the rankings to come out at the end of August to find out where I’ll be in the top ten. I don’t think they are going to give me the third spot, but they’re going to put me in the top ten. I don’t know if I’m going to get a world title shot, but it could happen. I could get a voluntary defence, because they know I am a junior welterweight, because that’s where I’m going to go back down to, but if I was offered an IBF shot I would take it. Delvin fought one of the champions and he was very beatable, and then the other dude I’ve never really watched, but it could happen. But I have now been thrown up into the big boy’s league, and I love it!”
On the subject of the Garcia fight and decision, I asked Ashley if he felt the Harasch Hotaki decision (a fight that took place in Germany) might have gone against him, given the common perception that German judges favour the home fighter. This is something I don’t subscribe to having seen dodgy decisions in the States and the UK of late, but I wondered if it might have crossed Theophane’s mind as he awaited the decision.
“Hotaki had never really fought anyone. He was 7-1-1 and meant to have power, but he had knocked out no-one, but you are never sure with those guys if they are any good, or whether they have just been protected. With him, I thought I out-boxed him for ten of the twelve rounds. I was sitting in my corner calm and collected but my trainer was like “You got to take it to him for the last four rounds”. I nearly stopped him in the last two rounds, the same kind of thing with Delvin, but the judges’ cards were close and I could have lost, so it is a good job I always have more in the tank to finish strong…or maybe I should start faster! Also, people always say that (dodgy decisions) about boxing abroad, but I have been robbed twice in England so wherever I go it’s always a possibility so I just give the best I can and hope the judges see it my way and I get the win. I thought the Danny Garcia decision was close. Straight after the fight he said he thought I’d won and I’d gone into the fight thinking they were going to rob me, but I thought I had just done enough to win but when I lost I was like “I knew this was going to happen” but I was still shocked. That’s why, if I am going to fight an American boxer I prefer it if they have some losses, like Delvin had lost four times, because then there is no perfect record or big paydays to protect. I actually wanted to fight Kendall Holt but my manager said it wasn’t a good fight for me and the Garcia one was better, and that’s why I like to go with my own judgement because Kendall Holt got stopped and I knew I would have stopped him, but everything happens for a reason. I might not have got the Delvin fight had I got the decision against Garcia”.
Given that Theophane is now in the upper echelons of the world welterweights, I asked if he would consider fighting for a British or European title, or whether it might almost be classed as a step backwards.
“Kind of” he replied. “My manager tried to get me a fight with Mick Hennessey in 2002 to give me my debut. They offered me Lenny Daws, but my manager didn’t know who he was because he didn’t follow the amateurs. I started at about the same time as Lenny and he has had a big promoter to get him fights and I have never had that, yet I am ranked above him in the world. I have tried to get fights with Barry Morrison and Colin Lynes but I have not had a promoter to help me get fights. I would like to fight Lenny Daws one day, but one day ain’t now because I can get big fights on the world stage. If I fought for the British title now and lost I would lose my world ranking. London is my home, so once I have finished over here in America, maybe then I could go and fight for the British title or European, but right now there are good fights in front of me that I am excited by”.
After his defeat of ‘Chop Chop’ Corley there was talk of big fights with the likes of Zab Judah, but they never happened. I asked Ashley why this might have been.
“After Corley I went back to fight Matt Scriven!” he exclaims. “I was meant to fight Zab Judah, and I got Matt Scriven. It’s strange that I’ve got no love from a U.K. promoter. You would have thought that after I beat ‘Chop Chop’ who had just lost to the number one contender, a British promoter might have come and said “Ash, we want to sign you up” but I have never had that, I have never been approached. I am just not their cup of tea I guess”.
There is no anger in Ashley’s voice but you definitely sense his understandable frustration. His frustration was furthered by the Zab Judah situation.
“I was annoyed, yeah, because I was in training with Dmitri (Salita) because he was meant to be fighting Kotelnik, so Dmitri flew me over here to help get him in shape, and I was in shape too, I felt great! So I was disappointed when the Judah fight fell through, but I was glad to get a fight on the Left Jab show in London, so my fitness didn’t go to waste. Then I was meant to fight Judah again, on May 1st the day before Hatton was boxing (Pacquiao) and that fell through. Then just now, Zab’s promoter agreed to me fighting Zab on October 2nd 2010 possibly for the IBO World Title, but Main Events contacted my management team to say Judah doesn’t want it this time, but maybe the one after that. So he is obviously not in a rush to fight me. My name must give him goose bumps! Maybe he Googled me and found out that it was me he was meant to fight two years ago and backed out again, you never know. I would love to fight him, but I don’t trust him. I could train for six, maybe eight weeks only for him to pull out again, change his mind and get another opponent. Zab is far from my mind but I would always say “yes” If I was offered a fight with him. I would fight him at welterweight or junior welterweight. There are people now saying Zab is training again, that he’s focused again, but Zab has always been Zab and I know that if things don’t go his way he will revert to type and start using his head or quitting fights. Delvin was meant to be a big puncher and he is much bigger than me and I handled him, I took all his punches with no problem, plus he came in two pounds overweight which they didn’t put down. I am not scared of any boxers out there; it’s just a case of fighting the right fight. Look at ‘Chop Chop’. He is going to fight Maidana for the WBA Interim title so I should be able to get a shot at a big boxer if I keep plugging away”.
In fact, there is little reason to be scared for Theophane if the rumours of his sparring session with Paulie Malignaggi are to be believed. I asked Ashley what exactly went on there.
“Oh, you’re going back, back, back there and Paulie gets upset when I talk about it. This was 2005 when we both went for The Contender because they were doing the welterweights. I was still 9 -2 then, and I was working with Lennox Blackmore who had fought for the world title against Aaron Pryor. I didn’t even know who Paulie was because he was 21 – 0 then. The day before, I had sparred with this Russian kid who had picked me up and threw me to the floor and tried to hit me after the bell, and I didn’t hit him back because I hadn’t come to America to street fight, just to train. I let the Russian kid do what he wanted to do because I beat him up in sparring which is why he got mad. That’s what I learned from Lennox Blackmore. They take sparring seriously, whilst I just saw it as practise and trying to get better. So Lennox said, “I’ve got this boxer here, do you want to spar with him?” so I said “Yeah” but he said “If he hits you low, then you hit him low, I don’t want the same thing that happened last night to happen again”. So we started sparring and Paulie was good, he has good boxing skills, feinting and stuff. It was the kind of sparring I like, technical. So we had done three rounds and he hit me low, so I hit him back low, so he started getting rough so I started getting rough too. Anyway, the bell went to end Round Three and he came running at me to hold me so I got him in a headlock and his trainer jumped in, then my trainer jumped in. They told me to get out of the ring and his trainer (he’s with a different trainer now) started talking about the ‘pen’ and “killing motherfuckers” and I was thinking these guys are crazy, man. Then Paulie tried to spit at me twice and then he was just shouting at me, and like you saw with Khan he likes to talk, then the next day he came in with like three of his bodyguards, two of these Italian guys and one black guy, trying to intimidate me and that’s pretty much what it was. He came up to me at a show in New York, just before he was about to box Hatton because he wasn’t happy about some of the things I had said about our altercation, and he just said to shake on it and leave it be. He‘s seen me sparring at the Gleason’s gym a couple of times since, but I will never like him because he spat at me, but you know we shook hands and it’s cool, there’s no beef now. I think he just saw me as a British boxer and I wasn’t known and I realised afterwards when I Googled him that “Oh, he is known around here” and that he was supposed to be a good prospect, but I didn’t know who he was but I found out he was highly thought of here and he was upset that I held my own with him but he says he got mad because he had just come back from injury and I was getting rough with him”.
Ashley Theophane is not your archetypal boxer in that he is intelligent and well read. I asked him about some of his non-boxing heroes such as Malcolm X and Louis Farrakhan, and some of his interests outside the ring.
“I like public speakers. I wish I could do it because I like listening to good public speakers whoever they are. With those guys (Malcolm X and Farrakhan), they were talking at a time when black people needed some leadership because they were telling people to help each other out. It’s the same with Jewish people, Chinese people, Asian people, Pakistanis; they stick together and a lot of black people don’t stick together so they were trying to spread the love. It’s something I’d like to get involved with maybe when I finish boxing, maybe start helping kids from bad backgrounds and stuff. I think I am a good example in that I come from a background where there is a lot of crime, I went to jail but I got my education and I am still trying to achieve my childhood dream and when I finish boxing I want to have my personal fitness company and other stuff. I can show these guys who get involved with guns and drugs; if they work really hard they can make it out of their bad environment”.
A lot of boxers when they train put on rock music or hip hop to help get the adrenaline rushing when they train, but Theophane’s choices are, unsurprisingly a little different.
“My Dad was a Rasta when I was growing up, not now but he was. He cut his dreadlocks off five years ago, but for twenty five years I grew up around that. I like Morgan Heritage, Bob Marley, Marcia Griffiths, the old school ones, having said that I like all types of music from a bit of rock, indie, pop, to r’n’b and soul. It’s weird, when you look at me I have a lot of tattoos on me but when I am training I like to be relaxed and I listen to soul music whilst other people want funky music or techno, house or hip hop, fast music. But sometimes I put soul music on and I get asked to change it because they are not there with their girlfriends! If I’ve got my I-pod on in the gym it’s r’n’b, and if I run I listen to soul. I like to be relaxed when I am training. I don’t want to waste any energy. Some boxers when they fight burn up nervous energy. I am never really nervous until the night before. The night before a fight is when I get nervous. I’m more excited. For the Delvin Rodriguez fight I was more excited than nervous. The night before the fight I had some dreams, woke up and then I was excited again. This is what I’ve always wanted to do, so I am happy to be here. I like music that is calming; I don’t like to build up nervous energy”.
Having mentioned the tattoos, and believe me, Ashley has some tattoos; I asked him if he would give us a brief run through what some of them represent.
“I’ve got Spurs on my bicep, I support Tottenham Hotspur and I am very pleased we got through to the Champion’s League. I’ve got Marvin Hagler on my right arm as well because he was one of my favourite boxers with his dedication and focus. I have got my Godmother and my cousin there, who have both died, because they both believed in me. My Godmother said she wouldn’t be surprised to see me as a champion or to reach my goals. They were two older people who said I could get to where I wanted to be, so I have tattoos of them. Then I have got the street influence ones, the ones I got when I was eighteen years old and a troublesome youngster. When I was young I thought everyone was against me so I had the Outlaw, I had the Thug Life, but that was me then. Ten years later I am a totally different person. When I was twenty years old, I thought I wouldn’t be alive when I was thirty years old, so that’s why being this age means so much to me because I never thought I’d get to see my thirtieth birthday and that’s why, I’m thirty in a few weeks time, and achieving what I have achieved right now means so much to me”.
As a result of his forays abroad, Theophane has had to change his style and be far more aggressive than he would like. He knows that the Americans prefer the aggressor, but considers himself to be a boxer first and foremost. When I asked Ashley about a possible fight with Lovemore N’Dou, he gave a broad outline of his future plans.
“A lot of things are being mentioned, fights with Guzman, Judah even John O’ Donnell which I found amusing. There’s been a few names that’s been bouncing around. I will fight any of them. I am not the perfect boxer, I make mistakes but I have got my Yogi Berra punch, my right hand. It hits people. I may swing it, but it still lands. I just want to fight the best. When I have been asked how far I can go, or how good I am, I don’t know, so I just want to fight the best and find out. I used to like watching Judah fight when I was young so why would I not take that fight? Joan Guzman is one of my favourite boxers. He may wipe the floor with me, but he may not. I would love to fight these big name boxers. Why not? If I am to win a world title, it is likely to be in Europe or the U.S. which will mean I will have done it without home advantage, so you never know! By next month, after I get back to London, I should know what’s going on. A lot of it depends on TV. slots, because if it’s going to be a big fight I want people to see it. I just want to be the best that I can be and see what I can achieve”.
And with that, our interview was almost at an end. My final question was to ask about his book which is likely to be even more interesting and thought provoking than what Theophane has told us here.
“I want to get it finished. I have done 120 pages so far and I am aiming for 200 then I will give it to the editor. I try to do it when I am in the mood, just go furiously at it. Sometimes it’s hard with the memories of the things that have happened in my life and certain moments that have made me who I am. I go deep into things and it takes a lot out of me but I am thinking it will be finished by the end of next year. I haven’t been in a rush to do it because I want to release it just before I am fighting for a world title or just afterwards”.
As we were wrapping up the interview we talked about the press coverage Ashley has received thus far in his career, and again, it is mystifying why a guy who is obviously talented, has a great chin, and who has gone about his business with the dignity of his heroes, has received so little by way of press recognition.
“I haven’t really been asked to do any big interviews. With the Garcia fight they asked me to do a diary, but with this fight (Rodriguez) they didn’t want a diary or an interview, I assume because they thought I was going to lose. At the end of the day I am a British boxer flying the flag in America. It’s a shame when that happens”.
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At this juncture I mentioned the fact that a lot of British boxers get fed ‘roadsweepers’ and their reputation is based on that. Theophane took up the point.
“You know, I have seen Kevin Mitchell sparring in the gym, and he is better in the gym than in his fights. He is a very talented boxer, I like him, but when he fought Katsidis all the press was saying he was going to win and I was thinking Katsidis is the hardest. He has fought in America against some proper names. I thought “this is no easy fight”. Kevin has not fought anyone of that calibre and I don’t think he has sparred against people of the calibre and I thought it might be a shock for him. I have sparred against the likes of Joan Guzman and other top fighters and I’ll spar with anyone because I want to spar at that level so I know what it is that makes them so good, because obviously there is something about them that makes them so good and so I like to spar against them because I get to find out how good I am. Kev sparred with the likes of Nicky Cook. Nicky’s cool but he’s not like the world’s elite. I think more British boxers should take trips to Europe and the U.S. to spar with some of the world’s best. It would be weird if I fought for a world title because people would be like “Ashley Theophane, never heard of him”.
Hopefully the time will come when the world will know the name Ashley Theophane. The thing that struck me most about Ashley was his desire to improve himself both in his career and personally. He comes across as a humble and decent guy, and if anyone deserves the big paydays and the title shots it’s him. He has made his way in boxing on his own terms and has fought against the adversities in his career with good humour and patience. If he gets that big fight Ashley will have the opportunity he needs and deserves. We should all be rooting for him to succeed and hoping that in the next year or two this proud British boxer can announce “Mission Accomplished”.
To find out more about Ashley and to follow his career go to http://www.ashleytheophane.com