by Geoffrey Ciani (Exclusive Interview by Jenna J & Geoffrey Ciani) – Hall of Fame boxing trainer Emanuel Steward discussed his views Manny Pacquiao’s one-sided victory over Sugar Shane Mosley in the first in a new series of special episodes of On the Ropes Boxing Radio (brought to you by CWH Promotions) In addition to discussing the Pacquiao-Mosley fight, Steward also touched on a variety of other topics including Andy Lee and his upcoming fight, Evander Holyfield, the Super Six, and more! Here is a complete transcript of that interview:
JENNA J: Hey everyone. Welcome to this special edition of On the Ropes Boxing Radio. We have a very special guest on this Sunday. We have Emanuel Steward on the line. How are you doing Emanuel?
EMANUEL STEWARD: I’m doing fine Jenna.
JENNA: Alright, well we had quite a weekend of boxing with some interesting fights and of course the big fight that everyone was talking about, Manny Pacquiao versus Shane Mosley. What were your thoughts?
STEWARD: Well it went pretty much the way I expected, but evidently there weren’t that many people thinking of it that way. You remember when I was on your show, I guess last week or so, and you were asking me of ways that Shane Mosley could win and I told you I didn’t have any way I see he could win. But I think the most important thing that I’m really impressed with was the unbelievable marketing job they did with the bout. It was way better than the fight because as far as I was concerned it never was even a real match in my mind. They marketed it fantastically. The place was sold out. I had people calling me wanting to know how they can get tickets and I understand in addition to the arena they sold 21,000 or so closed circuit. People showed up to buy tickets at the other arenas in the casinos. So there was an unbelievable job of marketing.
JENNA: Now one of the few things that Shane did do effectively in the ring was turning Manny Pacquiao all night. Do you think Pacquiao showed weaknesses in his game that somebody like Floyd Mayweather Junior could exploit?
STEWARD: Well I think Manny Pacquiao maybe has slightly slipped a little bit. He’s had a lot of hard fights and when you have 50 fights, regardless of what type of fights, usually there is a little bit of wear and tear. I think just the fact that Shane tried to fight, well his entire fight was defensive now that I’m think about it, but it did show that there could be some problems with Mayweather which I’ve always said that Mayweather had the edge over Pacquiao if they fought because of size and the styles. Nevertheless, Manny did what he had to do and it’s very difficult when you’re the only fighter that’s fighting and the other fighter is more in a defensive mode, but it was not a spectacular performance by either fighter from my view point.
JENNA: Okay well Emanuel besides myself, as always, we are joined by my Co-Host Geoff Ciani.
GEOFFREY CIANI: Hi Emanuel, it’s a pleasure to have you on.
STEWARD: Oh, it’s my pleasure Geoff.
CIANI: Emanuel I’m curious, Shane Mosley has been throughout the years a great champion. Now since the Margarito win which had him on a recent high in his career, he’s had three disappointing fights in a row with the two one-sided losses against Pacquiao and Mayweather and the semi-controversial draw against Mora. I’m wondering where do you think he goes from here?
STEWARD: Well I think he should retire. Shane has been a great, great warrior and he’s given us a lot of exciting fights but it’s over. It’s over. I mean he’s never been a great boxer. He was a warrior. He never was a guy who had an authoritative jab. He more jingled with his left hand than a raw loose wrist type motion. Then he exploded with combinations. So he’s not really a boxer. He’s not a devastating one-punch fighter and it seems to me that he’s a jittery type fighter that way when like he’s not sure of himself. Maybe he can’t exactly anticipate where the punches are going to come from. I think he’s been a great fighter. There was nothing that he could do to that could be better than what he did where sometimes there is that one last fight. It’s over with now. I think he’s going to be one of the most popular fighters in history because of the exciting fights that he’s given us, in particular the De la Hoya fights and even in some of the fights that he lost with the way he fought them like the fight with Miguel Cotto. But I think at this stage of his career it’s over and he will always be revered as a great fighter, but at this stage I think he needs to quit.
CIANI: When I think of truly great champions, I think of guys like Marvin Hagler who tried to go out there and make things happen and he wanted to prove himself against the very best continuously. To me it doesn’t seem like Mayweather or Pacquiao are really going after the fight. Do you think if one of them took the initiative that they could get this thing together?
STEWARD: Yes, but you know right now for whatever reason it seems like a tennis game where the ball is in one’s court. The last it appears that it was in Mayweather’s court and he didn’t return it for whatever reason. I’ve always felt that Mayweather I would favor in a fight with Manny and based on I guess Mayweather’s strong belief that Manny was using performance enhancing drugs, whether it’s true or not that’s his belief and I have to respect that myself. That was, I think, was the main reason the fight wasn’t made and we have more complication because of a lot legal issues that Mayweather’s dealing with. But eventually I think the fight will be made. There’s a good possibility of it being made because it’s one of the few fights that the public has really demanded and made themselves, not a promoters or the networks. I think there is a good possibility still that details will be sorted out, in particular after this last performance. I’m quite sure that if Floyd had any doubts that I’m sure that it definitely would have eased a little bit of those doubts after the performance of Manny, and Manny wasn’t up to par with his normal fast type style of fighting. But sometimes that could be just because the opponent didn’t want to engage. Everyone expected a more enthusiastic, aggressive-type Shane Mosley, the one that they kept promoting with the Margarito fight. They only showed that fight continually. It was a phenomenal job they did on marketing, even though as you said he’s only won one of his last four fights but that was the one they would show over and over and over.
It was interesting to me that I would run across people in the public and they were actually coming up and saying, “Who are you picking for the fight?”
I said, “What fight?”
They said, “Pacquiao and Mosley”.
I said, “That’s not really a fight.”
It’s amazing, but it showed to me that it was a great job with the promoters and the hype they were building up and the people were actually believing it.
JENNA: Okay Emanuel, the people in boxing now want to know where Manny Pacquiao will go from here and beside Mayweather Junior who we already mentioned, other possible opponents are Juan Manuel Marquez, Sergio Martinez, and also your fighter Miguel Cotto. Who do you think we’ll end up seeing Manny Pacquiao in the ring with next?
STEWARD: Well I don’t know who he’s going to fight next but I know Manuel Maruqez would be always a competitive fight. I think Marquez is really a lightweight and Manny is a junior welterweight in his true weight really. So it would always be a competitive fight because styles make for fights. He can still make big super fights with possibly Marquez and possibly in a big super fight in a rematch with Miguel Cotto since Miguel has got a couple of good wins lately. I think Sergio Martinez maybe will be made but I just think physically he’s too big. He’s too big and too fast. It would not be a good fight I think if I was handling him. I don’t know where he’s going to go. I think Pacquiao as great as he’s been, and to me it’s really great and you never can deny that at the lighter divisions when he was fighting at 122, and 126, and 130, and he was fighting the best fighters in their primes while he was in his prime and that’s what I have been more impressed with than recent fights where opponents have been very, very carefully selected. It’s an unbelievable marketing job on the part of Top Rank, but his real glory came when he was fighting the Barreras and those types, and Morales and those guys, I mean back-to-back-to-back-to-back. That earned him to me a spot as one of the greatest fighters of all time in my mind.
JENNA: Well beside the Manny Pacquiao fight this weekend there was a name from the past. His name is Evander “The Real Deal” Holyfield. He won a fight against Brian Nielson who is 46 years old. I’m just curious, what are your thoughts on Evander continuing to fight and do you honestly think he hurts his legacy by continuing on and fighting these types of fighters?
STEWARD: I don’t think it will hurt his legacy because often we think of great fighters like Ray Robinson or whatever, and we always go back and remember them in their prime. So he won’t hurt his legacy but it’s sad to still see him fighting. It was really frustrating because when he fought Valuev he won that fight. They just wouldn’t give it to him under the conditions over in Germany. That should have been his crowning glory where he would have won at least another title and what would that have even led to? Ultimately it could have set him in with a fight with one of the Klitschkos probably, which I think at this stage of his career would be a little too much, but no I don’t like to see him fight. I don’t think his legacy will be hurt too much because of these fights that he’s having now, and it’s interesting. He’s still winning most of them, He has very well selected opponents, but he is winning still.”
CIANI: Emanuel, going back to Manny Pacquiao for a second. Forgetting Floyd Mayweather right now and the present time, with the phenomenal run that he’s been on with victories and the great run he’s had at welterweight recently, what welterweight area fighters from the last 25-30 years do you think would give him the toughest style matchup?
STEWARD: Well when you go back to Duran, Hearns, or Leonard, I could just stop right there. I mean Mayweather or Pacquiao, they would have their hands full. I just can’t see Manny or Floyd beating those fighters. I thought they were physically big guys with multitalented boxing and punching ability, and Duran also. I put him in that same class. I think they would have had an edge to me. His fights as a welterweight have been very carefully picked and these weight stipulations like welterweight but not 147 or junior middleweight but not 154. You know. But I can’t blame him or his promoters. If they can do that and get away with it it’s great, but fighting Hearns and Leonard and Duran at their primes and their proper full weight, I think Pacquiao would have had a problem.
CIANI: Well during the fight itself it seemed to me at various stages that Shane could have done things a little differently and a little better and I thought he was actually having some success with the jab. Is that the key to beating Pacquiao?
STEWARD: Well I don’t know. I think Pacquiao at a certain point got relaxed and he realized that Shane wasn’t that big of a threat. I think with a sharper fighter he would be more on point so to say and he would fight better. The jab has always been to me one of the key punches, a jab and good balance and that was the biggest asset that I think Marquez had. Even though he was another small guy, but he always had good balance and position and he would take advantage of Manny. Often after he throws punches Manny actually like runs in and the guys who are standing in front of him he can get away with it because there’s the point of whether he hits them or they block his punches, but Marquez had such good balance that he would often hit Manny after Manny would throw punches and Manny would be out of position. Then he had that jab, so as Miguel Cotto was telling me once Marquez will always be a problem for him. If you look at the fact that you take the knockdowns away, which is 4 knockdowns in the 24 rounds that they fought, and the knockdowns was what made the difference in the results. The first fight which ended up being a draw because of an unbelievable three knockdowns in one rounds, but after that for the most part Marquez came back and one most of the fight but those knockdowns were really almost the deciding factor that creates the draw decision. Even in the second fight, the knockdown that he had which was one of those knockdowns in the middle of an exchange was a big factor I think in that decision. So you take the knockdowns away, probably more rounds have been won by Marquez, so Marquez will always be a problem for him. So I think the jab and the basic balance the fact that he takes advantage of Manny after Manny punches and gets out of position, but styles are what make fights.
JENNA: It’s something interesting you bring up that styles make fights Emanuel, and one thing we’ve seen is now both of these guys, Mayweather and Pacquiao, have fought common opponents. They both fought De La Hoya, Hatton, Marquez, and now Mosley. They both have different styles. Watching those fights, right now if you had to pick a winner between Mayweather and Pacquiao based on the fights that you’ve seen who would you pick?
STEWARD: I’ve always said that I would give Floyd the edge. First of all Floyd is physically bigger. Forget about all of these weights, Floyd is actually a strong sturdy guy. If you notice in his fight with Mosley he actually was physically stronger. In the same round that he was hurt in, in my mind I thought in the last thirty seconds he had taken control even in that round. I think he’s bigger than Manny is and I think his boxing techniques would be a problem for Manny and Floyd would probably capitalize on Manny’s bad position sometimes when he throws punches. Nevertheless, Manny would make him have to fight and that’s something we have not had anyone do with Floyd. He would not go out and beat Manny and control Manny as easily as he has Mosley and a lot of the other recent guys. He would have to extend himself and that’s what I don’t think he really wants to do, but Manny’s going to hit him and Manny’s going to make him fight. I’ll give a slight edge to Floyd but you never can tell because the inside warrior mindset of Manny is what gets him through a lot of his fights. He might get outboxed to a certain degree but he’s going to make you dig down inside. To compare with De La Hoya, I can’t because De La Hoya when he fought Manny was not the same De La Hoya. It was a physical thing because of dietary and weight loss and whatnot like that. So I try and compare the guys when they fought in their primes, with top fighters in their primes fighting other top fighters in their primes and not just fighting names. That’s what’s happening a lot recently. Guys are fighting names of fighters who are no longer in their primes.
JENNA: Alright Emanuel I want to get your opinion on some upcoming fights. This weekend we have Andre Ward versus Arthur Abraham as part of the Super Six tournament. What are your opinions on this fight and also the one coming up next month between Carl Froch and Glen Johnson?
STEWARD: Well it’s really hard to pick in most of those top level fights but I will put it this way, it’s hard to go against Glen Johnson. Even though it’s in the hometown of Froch I would say he may have a slight edge. The consistent pressure that he puts on guys is amazing. He just covers up and walks guys down and uses that hammer-like little chop down jab that gets everyone unorganized. His experience of fighting in those type situations where he’s in another guy’s hometown or home country and the fact that I think at 168 he is a very strong man. He didn’t have much of a problem making it evidently from 175 so I’d slightly favor him even in a hometown situation, and Andre Ward I expect will probably have a slight edge in his fight with Abraham.
JENNA: Okay well there is one of your fighters is actually fighting, not next week, but really the week after. It will be on Wednesday, May 18. Andy Lee returns to the ring only two months after a very tough fight at Foxwoods. He will be facing Alex Bunema. (1) How has his training been going and (2) what do you expect in the fight?
STEWARD: Well Andy likes to train and likes to fight like the old timers. He’s one of the few fighters that doesn’t say well I have to wait so I can get a TV date and what’s the purse. He just says he wants to fight again. So he wants to fight and I think he will do good. It will be an interesting fight. Bunema I don’t think is at the top of the game as he once was, but still he’s a puncher and you never can tell what could happen especially with the recent upsets where they seem to just be all over the place like a disease that’s going around. But I believe Andy will be okay. He’s been training very well and he’s sparring at the gym with Chad Dawson so he’s in pretty good shape.
JENNA: Alright well recently on our show Peter “Kid Chocolate” Quillin actually called out Andy Lee. He said he would be very interested in having a fight with him. Do you think that would be a good matchup to really decide who’s ready for a title shot?
STEWARD: Well I think that’s a good call for Peter. He should be interested, but right now he’s not in Andy’s plans but I think it’s a good possibility after Andy fights for the championship of the world that Peter could be there, but right now what’s probably on our minds is to have this fight here is a tune-up, possibly even fight again in July, and maybe in September he’s probably looking for a fight with Bryan Vera and after that maybe in the first part of 2012 he’ll be lining up to fight for the middleweight championship with whoever has a title he’s going to fight for. That’s our plans right now but I think Peter is a very good fighter and we’re very familiar with him. We’ve been together in New York and different places and he’s doing a good job. He doesn’t fit in our plans at this point in time. When it comes to name recognition marquee middleweights I would probably say Andy Lee is the next name after Martinez. The rest of them, even the other champions, I don’t think they have the marquee recognition that Andy has. The great exciting fight that he had on HBO on March 12 has definitely put him in a position to be a name that would draw an audience on TV as well as the live gate.
JENNA: Emanuel it’s been an absolute pleasure having a chance once again to interview you, especially after a big fight weekend. So I thank you for your time and me and Geoff just appreciate getting your commentary.
STEWARD: Okay, it’s my pleasure being on the show.
CIANI: Thanks Emanuel.
STEWARD: Okay, you’re welcome.
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